"I Don't Know What He Calls This... But It Ain't Welding"

That's what our Colorado Welder said after the intitial; "Oh My God!" when he looked under the trailer.

Knowing that the work done in West Yellowstone was NOT gonna hold together for any length of time, I'd decided we should bail out of our Fall in Yellowstone, and get somewhere safe, if we could, to make permanent repairs.

I knew of a competent welder in our old stompin' grounds so we headed out, bound for Nunn.

Now... I gotta tell you, Wyoming is WIDE open spaces... but, they seem a lot wider... when you cross the state at 45 mph with a busted trailer.

We made it, as you read before, and are now in the process of doing a proper repair... Here are a few pics of what was left by the previous "Pro" welder up north...

 As always you can click to see those pics bigger.

For those of you who know what welding is, I'm purty sure you'll agree with my True Pro in Colorado... "I don't know what he calls this... but it AIN'T welding!"

Kind of leaves a guy with a sick feeling in his stomach when he's stuck with the only game in town, and the deed is done.

You can get all screaming mad and raging, or just pick up your marbles and leave... and TRY to leave that anger behind.

I've spent so much of my life angry, I really try to abandon it when I can...

So... I'm now in the process, as I wait for him to break out the time in his schedule to correct this mess, of doing the prep work, so he can do the job proper.

I'll grind off all those nasty bits of peanut butter... clean up all the areas where the cracks occurred and have everything ready so he can do his job with the least difficulty.

Bottom line? Beware if you're in a "foreign" place getting welding done... If you're in West Yellowstone... I'd suggest hauling over into Idaho...

Now... to go over something again. Ted made the comment on the last post that the damage could have been caused by the "Rotational" force and not the "Vertical" force or load...

So... one more time... the Tears and Rips you see in the pictures of the Last post? Were, Indeed, Caused by the ROTATIONAL force of the Hitch Trying to turn upward, when the trailer slammed to a halt as the breakaway locked up. 

It's when the trailer wheels are stuck to the ground that a hitch can REALLY apply those Rotational Forces, as the truck tries to keep on going... and BAM! Busted hitch.

To that I agree 100%. But, one of my points is; IF, the frame was built to a more proper standard, those cracks wouldn't have appeared in the first place... and knowing those break aways can lock up... they should have built with that in mind. With the frame built of proper weight, it's my belief most of the failures we see, wouldn't happen.

Sort of like being a chair builder. If you build your chair to support the average 150 lb person. sitting down gently... and all that sits in the chair is one of those... you got no worries.

But... let a 295'er come galompin' in... and kerwhump! Plunk their butts down like they jumped off the roof... and keerunch! You got a busted chair....

A proper builder, in my estimation should allow for a lil' bit wider spectrum of possibilities.

Now, the difference in cost? To build one that will do the WHOLE JOB? Minimal, in the whole scheme of things, and maybe that's my real gripe here. To have done the job right, and built the trailers that match their advertising boasts... would have been a fraction of a percentage added to the cost of constructing the trailers...

He thought I should go lighter on Jayco and the manufacturers on that. So one more time, here's my points.

1. Geometry; (the fifth wheel vs. gooseneck argument) Whether the space between the king pin and the truck deck is spanned by a Fifth wheel hitch or a gooseneck conversion, the distance of that space, that length, is the same. That lever is the same length. To exert more force, you have to lengthen the lever. Simple geometry... or whatever the particular math is. The only difference is that it has less available movement in a fifth wheel (ie. the fifth wheel locks up sooner than a goose and, locked up, then exerts greater torque). Bottom line, working correctly, they are going to exert very similar force. *and let's face it the gooseneck conversions were designed by engineers too! :) * and... then, when you lay in the "Long Style" pin box they put on... THAT is the main lever, having nothing to do with fiver or gooseneck... and is why I'm considering adding an air ride hitch, to reduce and moderate the impacts and leverage against the frame...

2. I've said it previous, and say it again now, another poorly done job, (The axle flip) basically had me, unknowingly, hauling with a suspension travel of maybe a 1/2 inch... the shocks were completely compressed ( now corrected) leaving an effectively rigid suspension. That compounded the concussion against the hitch structure a lot, and I believe, started the failure with metal fatigue, vertical load, stress cracks in the too light, sheet metal, box beams. THAT, was my fault. Failure on my part, to do a proper inspection of the work. My Bad.

So... I accept responsibility for a portion of this failure. Work I had done contributed to it. No gettin' around that. But, if the trailers were not built, to the lowest, minimum standard possible, such failures would not be the common thing they seem to be. That is another my points I guess.

Though they promote their trailers and RV's as the best money can buy... uh... they often... are not... Just Sayin'.

So... Like Ted said, there's more than one side to a story. Jayco has a great responsibility here, I do, the bozos that did my axle work played a part... and that guy doin' a poor imitation of a welder back up north... well... he didn't contribute, not one little bit, to the failure... but... he didn't contribute much to a repair either! :)

Where does all this leave me? Same as always, puttin' one foot in front of the other until this ride is over.

I could get all mad and run around with my liver all inflamed... or just deal with this difficulty, and get back to the road.

I choose to get back to the road, and to the greatest degree possible, leave the anger at some "Pro's" less than stellar performances... behind.

... and one last thing... I read the other day where Rosanne Barr made some sort of caustic? remarks concerning punishment for "Guilty" Bankers... someone called her to task on that and she came back that she had said pretty clearly that her punishment was meant for the "Guilty" not the UN-Guilty...

That's pretty much my thought on any of this. Are all bankers Guilty? Nope. Are all corporations guilty? Nope. Are all engineers guilty? Not even. You just about can't say ALL about anyone or any thing...

But at some point in life, you have to make a conscious decision; "Do I go with the flow and turn out substandard, unsafe work? Do I participate in what effectively is Cheating, Or do I refuse and take what comes?"

I can brag that I've walked, more than once, 'cause I couldn't endure the thought of having to look in the mirror at a guy who did it wrong. Who dishonored a craft, a commitment, or the folks I worked with.

Am I running a perfect score on that? Nope, remember what I said about ALL? :) But I'm workin' on it. :)

Now... an end to who done what to who, when and why... and Just get the work done... and get back down the road...

Grinding and Preppin' in Colorado
Brian

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The Beginning... The Failure of the Fifth Wheel Pin Box

I found the cracks when I was un-hitching in the Madison Campground. When I found 'em they were just small, almost only hairline cracks. Disturbing, but not yet; "Oh My God!" ... they were still just only; "Damn, I could have gone a long time without that." :)

But, it was gonna be a couple days before the only game in town, that I could find, could do anything. So we looked around till Saturday morning... and, did the alternator replacement when that fried the next morning. :)

Then Saturday morning I hitched up and pulled the rig 14 miles west into West Yellowstone. Made that a long slow trip, not wanting to stress those cracks any more if I could avoid it. They could have been there for a couple days, I didn't know.

I got the rig, running slow with the emergency flashers goin' all the way to town. Just as we made the turn off of the Yellowstone road onto the main road in town, the cable that ran to the break-away brake snagged on something, and jerked the plunger out, locking the brakes.

Now, those small cracks were no longer, small cracks... When the trailer STOPPED, the 10,000 pound and more truck... Didn't... or at least, not very fast. oooooooffffffffffffff!

It jerked those cracks from cracks... into Tears and Hitch Failure.

*Failure of Attachment of Fifth Wheel Pin Box to Main Beam*

I sat in the intersection for many seconds, scrambling... as angry drivers cursed me for blocking the road. At least I was told they were. I was focused on getting the brakes released. Good thing for those Nasty Drivers, that I didn't hear 'em. That kind of ARROGANCE and lack of consideration is NOT something I deal with to awfully well. ;)

Finally, I got the plunger reinstalled, and the rig moving again. This time, with the main beam fractured and several other welds popped and torn...

*Example of other structural breaks from the twisting pin box*

I had another mile or so to get to the repair location. That was a long slow mile, moving at four or five miles an hour, with the flashers going... and rude drivers so intent on getting to their "Vacation" activities that they couldn't allow a man to deal with a serious breakdown, without their infantile gyrations...

Sometimes... What the hell is the rush with some folks? Take it easy, slow down. You'll get a more harmonious outcome! :)

So... we got there... and I went to work peeling the skin to get to the failure, and see what the total damage was...

*Getting the removable part of the Pin Box Out of the Way*

*The Fifth Wheel Hitch Area Opened Up for Inspection and Repair*

This is when we found cracks and pops on most of the supporting beams, that came when the brakes locked.

To come in the next post... the repair that wasn't a repair... yuck! !!!!!

The last thing here is this. This failure came NOT because of the Gooseneck adapter I use. If THAT was the problem it would have happened a long time ago, and the geometry simply don't support that argument.

But, if you look at that picture where I'm removing the front part of the pin box? You'll see that Jayco designed and built this rig with a "Long Style" pin box. Now... THAT is an issue.

My complaint and claim? IF you are going to utilize that sort of a design... You have to accept that you are putting a hell of a lot of stress on the frame... from the VERTICAL impacts over the many miles it will be hauled. Vertical impacts that are going to slam that frame whether it's sitting on a fifth wheel hitch or receiving those same impacts Vertically through a gooseneck adapter.

Those impacts are the SAME, with either attachment method. The geometry, the distance between the pin box king pin and the truck bed are the SAME, Fifth Wheel or Gooseneck. The lever length is the SAME. The gooseneck has greater flexibility and movement, reducing lockup over fifth wheel and REDUCING potential stresses from that but otherwise, the lever and it's forces are pretty much the same... The ROAD IMPACTS are the issue, NOT, the type of attachment.

ACCEPTING that reality, YOU AS THE MANUFACTURER must build the frame that the hitch is attached to, with a weight of material suitable to endure those Impacts... if you intend to sell it,with integrity, to someone.

Jayco, and MOST, Fifth Wheel manufactures, did not, and do not do that.

That frame is insufficient weight for long term heavy duty use. It is insufficient to build a car trailer that's gonna haul a Yugo. Honestly? I knew they don't build the things like they should, but I was still surprised by the light weight tubing they used.

So... we'll be adding several gussets, a heavy bracing member behind the attachment point, all intended to distribute the stresses more evenly across the frame. The idea is to eliminate the "Focusing" affect of how they built the rig. The way those stresses are now focused down on two welds...

It's also my intention to figure out how to scrape the beans together to install an Air Ride Fifth Wheel pin box, to reduce those un-avoidable  Road Impacts.

Taken all together, I believe our work will return our Rig to serviceability, and truthfully? Better than it was.

One more time, where a couple of rednecks fix the "Design" of engineers who allowed their work to be co-opted by the bean counters and "Bottom Line" bozos running the show.

Sound Kinda grumpy about it don't I? :) Yeah well, I kinda am. When I screw up, I admit it. In the end, I admit it, and try to do better the next time. Those guys, just keep running the line that they do good work and refuse to accept the reality, that they are Screwin' the Pooch... and cheating people. Bottom line, what they do is something they just can't be proud of.

So... this next week we'll get on to the final and real repair, and reconstruction of things, so we can get back on the road...

Takin' It As It comes
Brian

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Broken Down Ol' Twister Goin' RV Boondocking on a Leakey Budget...

 ... and too stubborn to quit... just keeps on kickin'.

You know, I've run on about it before.  Anyone with a pocket full of cash and the desire to to wander can buy a half million dollar motorhome and wander to their hearts content, and if diesel jumps up to five bucks a gallon who cares? They just stick their card in the machine and fill up that smokin' diesel gulpin' monster.

And you know what? More power to 'em. Those folks are lucky son's of guns, though, I feel pretty sure they're carryin' burdens of their own. And you know what else? Contrary to what some might say, the greatest majority of 'em worked just as hard for their treasures, as you and I have to come up with our dust. :) Sometimes there's just no explaining why some prosper and others go bust... Is why we call 'em Lucky! :)

My guess is though, there's a whole lot more guys an' gals like me than those lucky ones who are flush.

You know what I'm talkin' 'bout, Gypsy blood and a hikers wallet with big dreams of Roaming Free.

I'm not about to go judgin' anybody. Ya make your best guess, take your chances... some hit it big and they're off for the sunny slopes... others do their best and work hard, only they come to find out  that their guess was bad, or more often, events without any possibility of them exercisin' any sort of control whack 'em hard.

There's so many things to keep track of... and, even if you KNOW a job needs doin'... if it only costs five bucks, but there's only four in the bank... that job just can't get done... Now, get a few of those lil' jobs stacked up and a fella can get to feelin' like he's runnin' a marathon, uphill, carryin' four of those big Ol' opera type singin' ladies on his back.

No offense meant ladies! You sing good!

So...here we are, back where we started, and my list of all those lil' jobs, stacked up with a couple of big ones, could get to lookin' pretty tall... IF ...

IF, I let it. But you know what? The thought of the alternative, havin' to give up my wanderin' ways and park my self in one place for more than a Long Camp... to me... is SOOOOO much taller and terrifyin'. Kinda like the first Bronc I ever climbed on... I thought that horsehide monster was a fire breathin' dragon. Just knew she was gonna eat my liver!

... and, as it worked out, turned out to be up to the job she did! Even if she was just a runty lil' sorrel mare and no dragon... But, I kept pullin' my nose out of the dirt and climbin' back on... Sometimes I'd win... many times not...

Bottom line? I ain't quit yet. I never sold my saddle!

The Army threw me out, said with a broke spine I was too busted up to soldier any more... so, Too dumb to do anything else... went back to cowboyin' for a lot of the next twenty years...  :)

What I'm gettin' at is what I've palavered about for a long time. I keep repeatin' myself for two reasons; First... I need to say the words to remind myself... and second, I know, folks get weary same as me. They lose sight of where they're tryin' to get. I want 'em to not quit, NOT give up.

If a dumb, bald headed, pussgut of a broke down twister, can turn around and become a published author, better'n half way through his first century, and keep himself and his wore out rig, scrubbin' the rubber off his tires on the roads that're strung out across the west...

... You folks that are prettier and far more talented can too.

The only thing I've got goin' for me is a crotchety unwillingness to give in. Hell, If my donkey behind can push on through with sheer stubbornness; You folks that have true education, artistic talent, the ability to understand High Finance :) and a deeper knowledge than me... CAN TOO!

Just 'cause you're as broke as me don't mean didly.The key is in refusing to say; "Ok, I quit."

Gonna build a house? Buy the first two boards an' a couple nails... stick them suckers together... then go figure out how to get the next pair. Eventually, you'll get the dang house built.

That's what I'll be doin' for the next lil' while.

I've got some repairs to make... but... one thing I hate... I Hate... I HATE! is having to go back and do a repair, over and over again. It holds you back. Rather than moving on to new projects all your energy seems to get used up just treadin' water...  Worked a few ranches like that. The bosses wouldn't allow you to do it right the first time. So, rather than spending fifty bucks to fix it once and for all... they had you spending ten bucks... fifteen times... Just plain dumbness the way I cipher.

We could have been spending most our time improving those places... rather than all of it... puttin' band aids on band aids.

I don't want to be rollin' down ever rougher roads, worryin' is the rig gonna snap in two. So... some how... some way... we're gonna fix it right, and correct what those "Engineers" and Bean counters layed out wrong, when they built this rig... without runnin' the design past some Ol' redneck who knew better, (without a fancy certificate hangin' on the wall) First! :)

So, yeah, we're broke, and the rig is busted... but... in a week or two, it'll be patched up again... and dented, dusty and still "Broke"... we'll be rolling again down another lonely road! Promise!

So boys an' girls, one more time... I'm determined to show that a guy... or gal... who wants something strong enough... or already HAS IT, and just only wants to KEEP IT... Can do just that.

IF... they Cowboy Up, grab that Bronc by the Head, and chew on his ear!

Fixin' Broken Fivers... With a Mouth Full of Ear
Brian

***I'll start posting some pics over the next couple of posts... the 0riginal Fifth Wheel Pin Box Failure, The West Yellowstone Pin Box Repair, that was NOT a repair... and then, the Proper Repair, along with whatever other changes I might make to work around the weak/Minimum construction that MOST RV MANUFACTURERS employ.***

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