First... I think I may have led "Errant ATV'ers" to take TOO much of the focus... Those folks had ATV's for sure... but... in all honesty, the greatest amount of the damage was done by their trucks, RV trailers, jeeps, and the trailers they hauled their ATV's into a TOO WET meadow on... This is an issue of General Dispersed Camping use... NOT... ATV'ers or any other group, alone.
Second, none of the photos I posted were of ANY roadway. Outside of the "Entrance" from the graded forest road, all the photos were of the interior of the meadow. The Meadow is an area of "Traditional Dispersed Camping use."
A few days ago "1 more mile" posted a url of an off road outfit in his comment... it's an outfit working to educate off road users... and worthy of support... education is the only way... Since every effort I know of to ever legislate morality has failed.
I was asked if I'd be as offended if the damage had been done by a rancher, farmer of logger?
My answer is...YES... I would be...and have BEEN... MORE... offended. Stupidity is stupidity, whether it is within my own community or not.
I've spent the best part of my life, making my living from the land. To be told that I'm a divisive malcontent because I demand respect for the land that has fed my self and my family... is disheartening. If someones life was at stake then the meadow be sacrificed... but... to simply tear it apart, because it is "Legal" is immoral.
Law is not right or wrong. It never has been. Law is just Force. What I'm talking about here is Morality. Is it right and proper to destroy, simply because it is "Legal"? or should a person live and exist... in pursuit of a higher standard?
Something to consider; Let's say this land is posted "Open"... you can go where you want to. Up on the Interstate, the speed limit, by law, is 75 mph. However, there is a caveat on that... "Traveling at a speed reasonable for conditions." ie. You adjust your speed/driving... to the current conditions. If it is raining and snowing, you slow down!... and at times.... you just stay off the highway. That is what I tried to get across here... and I'm not sure I succeeded. The conditions, where those folks went... Open or Not... did not permit Honorable, or Moral entrance by their vehicles.
I on the other hand... tooting my own horn here... carefully entered the area, without doing damage, when conditions were good. We plan on leaving in the next several days... but... I can not do that, until the ground firms back up enough to move without inflicting the damage those others did... it's the Cost of coming here... if You're unprepared to pay that cost, and take that time... I submit... morality dictates you go elsewhere. Posted Open... or Not...
If you devastate the land, flying the flag of; "It's posted open, I can go where I want, when I want... and if YOU complain about what I do, then YOU are a Divisive Malcontent." Then the last remaining "Open" lands will indeed be closed... To All of Us... and there will be, not one thing, we can do about it.
... and lastly... NIMBY? Nope... Not in my back yard... Not in ANYONES back yard. Why do you think the "Open" lands have been so greatly reduced? ... Because of actions, exactly like this... and the "Messenger" being told "Their assault on liberties" is the problem... not the moronic behavior of the very small minority.
Sad to say... I think there are those with whom I'll just have to say; "We'll have to agree, to disagree."
... and... if I'm pushed into having to decide between two distasteful options; 1. Tolerate the mutilation of the land I live on, "Because it is their Right"
... or...
2. Have my vehicles restricted to Forest service Campgrounds and specified roads and trails, because a very few refuse to behave within reason or common sense, and asking them to do so, is to "assault their liberties"... and there is no other way to control or modify their, lack, of control... I have little option... and it's a high, if distasteful price I am prepared to pay... and I'll go into the mountains... on Foot.
... and now, as Forest would say; "That's all I have to say about that."
So...to rebuild the spirit, and refresh the soul... we took a nice walk yesterday afternoon. Maybe close to four miles.
 |
| *Doing Business in the High Country* |
... so... I'm going to go, today, and contemplate my "divisive and Malcontent" nature... in the solitude of Elk Meadow... a couple miles above us...
... and with a melancholy shake of his head... the cowboy took a deep breath... and walked away...
Brian
Return to the main site of goin' RV Boondocking or Visit my Sister website Motorcycle Touring on Freedom Road
17 comments:
Brian,
You are flat out wrong on dictating what is 'Brian's law" in the "designated open areas". You can have your opinion but, that is all it is. And if I see that opinion as one of a malcontent, then that is my opinion that I am entitled too as well.
I know the law here, I know the background and I know the struggle very deeply, I might add!
Lambasting activities without proper accuracy on what is legal and what is not because it is your opinion only serves yourself. Did that fire you fanned make you warm?
As outdoorsman, we are in this together and our foes are anti-access not the people you focused on. They can be educated to proper etiquette, the anti-access people have an unwavering agenda that has and never will change.
Please consider that contrast next time you present your popular prose.
Brian the right to access is a lot different than the right to abuse. I find your attitude a little to gentle for my liking.
Like I said... we can agree to disagree... but your "Tolerance" of the behavior of "Those People" is allowing them to put a knife in our "Mutual Backs"
Agreed, we are fighting the same "Anti-Access" folks... But Turning a willfully blind eye, to the actions I exposed here, only lends power to those we both agree, stand against us.
If, "They can be educated to proper etiquette" ... how do you propose to do that?... if anyone who shines a light on their "Poor" etiquette is going to be castigated and told they are "Dictating" and that they are "Flat out Wrong"?
... if the messenger is to be executed, and his message buried?
If we allow, without consequence, actions like this to continue, we can fight the good fight, together... and we'll LOSE that good fight... together.
We must clean up our Own House... before we can engage those who stand against us.
We don't want different things. We have the same goal...
You just don't seem to see the danger, of allowing what I witnessed, to continue without strong and noisy criticism. It is a weapon they (our opponents) will use against us. Our position is terribly weakened by standing "With" such as my recent neighbors...
I don't know what else I can say... and so... like I said in the post, I defer to Forest Gump... "That's all I've got to say about that."
Thanks Barney.
I try to keep this an "Open" forum... and so... I "Pull in my horns"... juuuust a bit...
Confrontation... where each gets pushed into "Defending his turf" is seldom profitable for either side... Kind of like a war...No One wins...
But... I try... to stuff my less "Gentle" attitudes a bit :) in the hope that something good can come out of my very great effort at "Behaving" myself! :)
So now... I'm going for a walk in the park! :)
Brian, again you have not provided accurate info on whether the area is open where this activity is allowed (if you like it or not) or, if it was truly unlawful.
You can't lambaste these people on opinion and expect it to be universal law.
In the southwest and particularly in California, there are "designated open" areas where vehicle access is near 100% unrestricted. When it rains in those locales the same muddy tracks occur and the same potholes form. Next year they are gone via natural process or the travel that smoothes them over in time.
By design, these "designated open areas" are provided to protect other areas from the same incursions. It is part of the long thought out and agreed upon plan by the stakeholders. You can't simply state alterations to that work and planning from your digital soap box and be consider credible by the people (like me) that are working tirelessly on these issues.
I invite every person in this thread to get educated and involved instead of letting their emotions lead them down a path of "less liberty for all" and that includes you! I will say unequivocally that I am sure you (Brian) will feel a lot better about it in the end because you will have a better message and product for your audience.
As for educating these folks in person and on the ground - I will tell you from first hand experience that the folks that are dedicated to their pastime will listen. That is certainly not all of them and it may not be the people near your camp but, taking a moment to educate goes far further to preserve our liberties than inaccurately stirring up emotions on this blog.
I am easy to reach, I invite and welcome any question or discussion on these matters or theme in the future.
Brian,
There are some people in this world that think the world belongs to them alone and they are above reproach.
I am in total agreement with you.
Bill
I host in NF at 7600 ft.ATV are the biggest TROUBLE YOU Can have.NEVER did meet one that was nice. ALL they want is to do it there way, most do not know the laws that covers them, wreack the land and leave trash.Our LEO does what he can.But they way out number him.How can anyone call them outdoorsmen?We call them motcho campers
madatatvers
Hey Brian....Up here in Washington we fine$$ the idiots when they can be caught..sometimes they are made to repair their damage.Hopefully this educates them.
UPRIVERDAVID
Hi Brian,
Totally agree with your sentiments. From all I've seen 1 More's education effort is not having much of an impact. Glad things have settled back down in your part of woods.
Jay
Hello Brine,
Well there are a lot of opinions on this matter.What I am thinging here is what does open mean? Does it mane do as you please or what? What I am hearing here from some of your readers is do as you please. I sure would hate to let some one use my land and then they come up after a rain and cot ruts all in it, I am afraid there would be some horse words said and that woud bethe end of there use of it.So I would think it all boiles down to good sence and that would be the bottom line.
We all have our opinions but there needs some good common seance used also. Just cause it says open lets not destroy itand have our rites taken away
Harold
Hello Brine,
Well there are a lot of opinions on this matter.What I am thinging here is what does open mean? Does it mane do as you please or what? What I am hearing here from some of your readers is do as you please. I sure would hate to let some one use my land and then they come up after a rain and cot ruts all in it, I am afraid there would be some horse words said and that woud bethe end of there use of it.So I would think it all boiles down to good sence and that would be the bottom line.
We all have our opinions but there needs some good common seance used also. Just cause it says open lets not destroy itand have our rites taken away
Harold
The conflicting opinions of "1 More Mile" and "goin' RV Boondocking" are a conflict between legal and moral.
There was a time in this country when legal and moral were one and the same but that time has passed. We are now a Nation of Laws; laws passed by a majority of the people representing the People of this Nation. If a law happens to offend your personal morality that is simply too bad; you have no 'right' to impose your morality on the majority.
The new rules of life in this country are quite simple: If is is Legal then it is RIGHT. Morality is a old outdated concept imposed by various religions that no longer has any place in this Nation of Laws.
This subject is sure gettin' some attention. I may as well give my 2 cents. The problem with all those laws is that someone can always find a loop hole. And that leads to more laws. That's how we get in the predicament we're in. There are so many laws that we are bound to be breakin' a law or 2 every day without even tryin'. One of the Ten Commandments says "Love your neighbor" (the short version). To my way of thinkin' we could do away with most of the laws if we'd give a little consideration to that one principal, Love your neighbor. Thanks,
Mick
Amen brother.
Mike
Ed,
Look in the mirror.
A lot of people think anyone in a gas guzzling, carbon emissions spewing, property tax evading RV is immoral.
I find their arrogance and yours to be no different.
"When it rains in those locales the same muddy tracks occur and the same potholes form. Next year they are gone via natural process or the travel that smoothes them over in time."
So does that mean that an area that is "open" can be used in this manner...legally...just once and then one has to wait a year for the ground to smooth out so that the area can be accessed again? Who would be able to use that area for dispersed camping, ATV or recreational use after these folks had occupied it and left it with ruts so large that it would be difficult, at best, to access the area by any type vehicle?
I agree with the statement, "just 'cause it's legal doesn't mean it is ok" A person should be mindful of the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law. I hope that doesn't make me arrogant 1 more mile, I don't ever mean to be arrogant. Open access I'm sure means taking reasonable responsibility.
Mick
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